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Looks like we found the co-owner of Wife Approved, LLC. You need special clearance to enter this airspace. - claiming he got auth when he didn't MuckRock is a non-profit collaborative news site that gives you the tools to keep our government transparent and accountable. I wonder if they're aware of how much exposure this has in the pilot community. The pilot violated the FARs and FSDO needs to take appropriate action. If the worst were to happen, people could lose their lives due to pilot deviation, which is not something that anyone wants to have on their conscience. I've gotta jump on the bandwagon in wondering "just what the heck 'Karen' was thinking" when she told the 99.9999999% of commentors on this site to get the "sticks out of their asses". Doing so erodes hand flying skills which is evident in the last phase of his flight. From available ATC communications, it appears this particular pilot either forgot to make the request, or thought he made the request to get permission. I hope that this finds you well and safe, We apologize for the delay in response. Even if he was previously allowed in the airspace, once told to get out, he has to go, no debate and certainly no defiance. Maybe, just maybe this controller was playing her Bravo authority a little too far? Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. often don't recognize their own issue. Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ). She then states (in so many words) that she didn't clear him and she's the only one that can clear him. Hard to believe there is somebody out there kind-of defending him! As soon as I heard this when she said not cleared I remember him saying thats a $5,000 fine. I didnt realize I had violated class B airspace, can I get vectors out? then I would bet my life that none of us would have ever even heard this story. MuckRock users can file, duplicate, track, and share public records requests Dad got home that night after his charter. The requirements for us to enter Bravo airspace are spelled out with extreme clarity in the FARs; this one dickhead decided to ignore those requirements. He busted that test and they pulled his ticket. Been there, done that. Double that. IMO he needs to have his ticket pulled for a year minimum. With respect to my comment above (cant edit), delete the word email from the comment (next to last word). A brasher warning is basically when you are given notice that you have made a mistake when you were piloting a plane. U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Aviation Administration 800 Independence Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20591 1-866-TELL-FAA (1-866-835-5322) Time that controller needed for other pilots who HAD to be in the Class B. I can't believe anyone would defend his behavior Is it that hard to skirt around or over it? airworthiness of an aircraft or the current aircraft configuration. You'd be surprised how many Pilots act like they are the only plane an ATC is working even tho she is nonstop talking sequencing Arrivals to one of the top 5 busiest airports in the USA!!! If you are training to be a pilot, or simply have an interest in the industry, a phrase that you might have come across is pilot deviation. The Flight . He endangered so many people. There is zero excuse for wasting ATC's time in a Class B in this age of airliners everywhere. I'd always much rather be proactive and prevent a pilot deviation. I am sure you are a "perfect angel". If the pilot is unsure of an ATC clearance, they can simply request clarification from ATC. .. There must be zero tolerance. N731NR (still whining): "I've asked for clearance multiple times. She is going to give him the number when he's ready. If you are on an IFR flight and told to maintain a certain altitude, deviating from that altitude beyond tolerances set by the regs qualifies as pilot deviation. Almost would have met you that day but water saved me. I was the 16yo kid working the desk when his #2 instructor sent a private student off on his long cross country and controlled airspace solo flight he went to lunch. "Abraham Lincoln, letter to H.L. I live in Las Vegas. Both pilot and atc handled the situation poorly. She didn't offer a heading or instruction to resolve the issue. Thanks. She should have vectored him out after he refused. If you are aware that you have made a mistake, and have filled out the necessary reports, then it will be less likely that you will face serious consequences. Note that the question does NOT ask: > When ATC has you call them for pilot deviation you have made, what do they say on the phone? Second in a high traffic area like near an airport multiple pilots can be on the same channel, it is a way to identify the pilot speaking as one pilot may sound like another. Where do I go on the Net to get ATC chatter at RDU? But if we want to affect change, we need to do it safely and respectfully. I just looked over the link you posted. This incident is recorded as all radio communications between planes and ATC are definitely recorded as a matter of public record:https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-negligent-pilot/. Im flying.. Want the latest investigative and FOIA news? Possible Pilot Deviation Imagine you're the PIC, departing from Runway 27L. Were all here to check each other and keep our airspace safe. There are published VFR approaches and having flowing the west side "water tower" I know they're trivial. I think by "Airforce" [sic] you're thinking of all those movies you've seen. All I do is shake my head and smile. 07-Oct-2022. He should not even be allowed to control his own [emailprotected]. Amelia McGillManagement & Program Analyst (FOIA Coordinator)FAA-Office of Foundational BusinessCorrespondence Services Branch, AFB-130424-405-7221. There's many reasons my flights keep being delayed and canceled and ATC being overworked is one of them. Most aircraft are owned by a business, a corporation, a leasing company, or someone who rents their aircraft out. This request is not currently in perfected status. Having been a pilot for over 50 years let me assure you this pilot will receive more than a you shouldnt do that anymore. Why Do They Cut the Back of Your Shirt When You First Fly Solo? This guy is a real threat to himself and others. "Other pilot: "You're an ass$&#!". Then he flew back to Torrance the next day. Only then did he comply with instructions. However, unless you are in a Class A airspace, a pilot is allowed to cancel an IFR flight plan if the operation is being conducted in VFR weather conditions. He was wrong in what he did but I had to voice this opinion. Karen: > Nobody gives a f*. If you do not, then you might face losing your certificate, which isnt what anybody wants. I've been given instructions that I don't agree with. To cross LAS B airspace to get to HND is To cross LAS B airspace to get to HND is beyond my ability to grasp. A lock ( LockA locked padlock ) or https:// means youve safely connected to the .gov website. Anything that may seem like a clearance but does not resemble those exact words is not a clearance. P.S. If an ATC clearance has been obtained, there is no pilot that is allowed to deviate from the given clearance unless an amended clearance has been obtained, there is an emergency, or the deviation is in response to an air traffic alert and collision avoidance system resolution advisory. That's movie crap. How reassuring and interesting your post is, Eldo. Indeed: N731NR - Aircraft Registration Information D DankVectorz Legendary Member FAA Messages 1,895 Facility N90 New York Tracon Jun 25, 2020 #6 Phillyman2633 said: What the cuck? The aircraft, N731NR, is registered to "Wife Approved LLC." Advertiser Disclosure: Some links to credit cards and other products on this website will earn an affiliate commission. Even the simplest of deviations can make the difference between life and death, which is why it is so important to stick to the rules. Id. Also in this case, N1NR is crossing directly into the path of other aircraft's landing approach (2 Southwest airplanes at that moment were landing). My reliable bet is that sometime between approach switching the aircraft to tower and the time the phone number is read, the pilot gave the tower controller a sob story. The more belligerent she became the more concerned the staff was. I once ate spices in the Old City. What is more likely is ATC would instruct N1NR around Bravo. Subject: FOIA 2020-007191WP DUE: 8/6/2020, 411A Highland AvenueSomerville, MA 02144-2516, Subject: Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request 2020-007191WP. We have your student at the local FBO, and one of my people has the keys. ATC: "N1NR, possible pilot deviation, advise to contact Las Vegas approach. Really when you hit "submit" you should have not. Maybe, just maybe this controller was playing her Bravo authority a little too far? Reminds me of center frequencies ignoring calls from VFR aircraft. Then landed on the beach. This leads the pilot to tell ATC to clear him. This is why the controller is denying entry into Bravo space. Im an air traffic controller in a class B airspace (one of the 8 US airports busier than LAS) and I have to admit that Im occasionally underwhelmed by the services that my coworkers are willing to provide; how unenthusiastic they can be about working a little harder to allow a VFR aircraft to enter the airspace. I'm very impressed that he could do all that. Although VASAviation transcribed it as "you're being that," it sounded to me more like this pilot started to retort with, "YOU'RE being an ass--", then caught himself and said, "That is not appropriate language.". If he had a sick passenger he should have explained the situation to ATC better or at all. Always good to receive a reminder that your pilot may be a nut case and we can just hope we never find out if s/he is or not. Your request is assigned to the office listed below: Federal Aviation Administration Contact: Amelia McGillWestern-Pacific Region (424) 405-7221Flight Standards Division, AWP-200777 S. Aviation Blvd.El Segundo, CA 90245. That's a serious violation right there to blatantly refuse an order by ATC. Please inform me prior to conducting any service demanding fees.I would prefer the request filled electronically, by e-mail attachment if available or CD-ROM if not. Ground deviations can happen while taxiing, taking off, or . LAS: "You have to have a Bravo clearance. Pilot "I busted class b". Get Alerts. Let the appropriate agency (the FAA) handle this. Isnt the airspace over international airports congested (and dangerous) enough without these general aviation Cesena clowns and the Harrison Fords of the world putting the rest of us at risk? "N731NR (again, whining): "I requested Bravo clearance about 15 miles ago. I'm a Retired LAS Controller. Neil Wilsonthe CFIIsays "maybe the controller was playing her class BRAVO authority a little too far".. You should not be a CFII with that kind of attitude. Got it in there but lake was too short for lake off. We all know the pilot was wrong but. maybe he's tired of the attitude of that particular class bravo. All I do is shake my head and smile. Don't argue with these pros. Don't get what you want, "burn down the system.". Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. Either way, whether medical or psychological, the solution is the same - he shouldnt have a license. To check up on N1NR 's claim that he requested clearance there was only one conversation between N1NR and ATC that was seven minutes prior. I dont see any defense to his behavior. Another pilot chimes in with his thoughts. An official website of the United States government Here's how you know. Or the one over Cerritos in 1986? The wheels of justice grind slowly but they do grind - Ken White (a lawyer and a good one). It is a technical term that means that the pilot in command failed to observe FAA regulations, ATC clearances, or temporary flight restrictions in the conduct of his/her flight. I have to say the VASAviation guts who make these videos to an awesome job, its really cool how they combine the audio with the radar detail. Due to the multiple violations including multiple times refusing to obey an ATC order, I am hoping the pilot's license is suspended at a minimum. He did not declare a fuel emergency, so go east over Lake Meade, or go west over Red Rocks and stay out of B and get to HND without any issues. LAS may not have even heard the static. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. When Can You Deviate From an ATC Clearance? There are riots. Aviation SafetyOffice of Safety StandardsRegulatory Support DivisionAviation Data Systems Branch, In our continuing effort to improve the quality of service to our stakeholders, we would appreciate any comments you may have about our services and how to improve them. > Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. Unless it has been authorized by the ATC, no pilot should operate an aircraft according to any clearance or instruction that has been issued to the pilot of another aircraft. He could have declared, he could have said he has a medical emergency, heck he could have said all sorts of things. These guys & women keep 10-20 balls in the air constantly..you think you can do better?? I was interested in being a Pilot but it shocks me how awful other pilots can be, they even revert to ganging up or saying a terrible thing because of a mistake another pilot made as if they "the great one" has never made a mistake in their life. I drove IP the 95 miles to FSD and he had a session with the controller and the supervisor. In contrast, the pilot of N731NR exhibited an unrepentant anti-authority attitude. E Looks like he was below 6000 the whole time. 24 votes, 30 comments. Laws don't matter anymore. ATC "OK, state reasons please". Your participation in helping us identify both our strong and weak points will help us improve our service(s) to all our stakeholders. Second, yes, people make mistakes, and when someone tells you "Hey you made a mistake here's how to correct it" you do just that. Result - IP and my Mom who normally ran the business in Dads absence got back at the same time. There's no stick up anyone's ass here just concerned people who want to ensure the people who trust us to get them to point B are safe. Caller - is he available, The main reason is safety to clear an area around the airport for takeoffs and landings. The magic words that should raise the hairs on the back of your neck are "possible pilot deviation." It goes without saying that you should remain vigilant as you fly around the national. Just like the American pilots did when they couldn't get runway 31 at JFK. We will leave some of the most common violations below for you to read about. https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/a1wehj/so_who_has_one_of_these/ 3 This pilot is more than likely going to have to do recurrent training probably 10 to 15 hrs before privalages can be restored. would argue at times. This leads me to believe that a medical problem or hypoxia or something like that might (emphasis, _might__) have been a factor. If you are in trouble for pilot deviation, the results could be very bad. Controllers do not make up things to pick on pilots. Otherwise he'll have his license yanked in *very* short order. The Federal Aviation Administration publishes quarterly a compilation of enforcement actions against regulated aviation entities that are closed with either a civil penalty or issuance of a certificate suspension or revocation. Secure .gov websites use HTTPS He flew straight to KHND like he owned the sky. In over 30 years of flying, I have sat and listened to amateur pilots give ATC professionals a load of sh*#. Flightaware shows he flew in from denver at 16300' level the whole way. He was the one that escalated the situation to where the ATC got flustered/put off by his response. | Busted Bravo Airspace VASAviation - 519K subscribers Join Subscribe 9.7K 728K views 2 years ago Date: 20/JUN/2020 Your support is really. He flew the plane and student back, Mom advised student (he wanted to finish he's flight) he was done until she discussed it with IP and Dad as owner and Chief Pilot. What a name for a company! Ah, Karen. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, I hereby request the following records: An electronic copy of:- any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions (incl suspensions, revocations and/or monetary penalties) or FSDO records (including statements or phone recordings from Las Vegas or Henderson Tower ATC regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance*)- from 2018-Nov-5 to present,- of owner WIFE APPROVED LLC, registration N731NR, or Jeff Wachner. You can listen along to ATC at liveatc.net and search for RDU in the upper left. The Cessna P210N stall speed is 67 knots. Or the one over "Isnt the airspace over international airports congested (and dangerous) enough without these general aviation Cesena clowns and the Harrison Fords of the world putting the rest of us at risk? Continuing into class Bravo airspace without a clearance and then flying right thru the active ILS approach to a major airport is a huge problem. The Registry will be issuing revised certificates in batches based on the former expiration date. This isnt a slap on the wrist type of offense. How Much Does It Cost To Become A Flight Instructor? ATC is trying to direct traffic and Mr Wachner regardless of a possible misunderstanding says to hell with you I'm doing what I want. The best way to ensure that you do not get in any trouble is to stay vigilant, follow the rules, and file a report if you know that an error has occurred on your behalf. Good luck. N731NR: "Vegas Approach, Centurion 731NR with you descending through 5700'"LAS: "1NR, Las Vegas Approach, Las Vegas altimeter, 29.88. Thank you for your very thoughtful insight. Get the stick out of your asses. Assuming N1NR requested clearance, in standard aviation communications, there is a clear protocol. She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits. He flew right across the ILS approach glideslope to LAS 26 after he was told to vacate Bravo airspace recklessly endangering multiple lives. He should AT LEAST be suspended, and frankly, given his behavior, I have no issue with his losing it. Pilot deviation is when the actions of the pilot result in the violation of a Federal Aviation Regulation or a North American Aerospace Defense Command Air Defense Identification Zone tolerance. > Why am I not surprised this happened in Vegas, where theyre apparently allergic to rules. Some of the penalties of pilot deviation can be no action, a warning notice or letter of correction, certificate suspension, civil penalties, retraining, and even certificate revocation. That's no cause to kill him. Happens every day, but not usually with the drama that this knucklehead exhibited A few weeks ago a commercial pilot blew through the O'hare Bravo - ATC kept trying to gently help him by repeating the local altimeter reading thinking he might check his altitude by the 3rd time he offered it, but eventually just had to notify the errant pilot and provide him with a phone # to call. For specific information, you may request a copy of . The Federal Aviation Administration publishes quarterly a compilation of enforcement actions against regulated aviation entities that are closed with either a civil penalty or issuance of a certificate suspension or revocation. He responds he requested clearance previously. At the end, it seems like there was at least one transmission we didn't hear where this pilot was giving "his side of the story" to Henderson Ground, hence that controller apologizing to him. Single and Multi engine with Instrument privileges. If this pilot had any sense he would have self reported because his flight recording through the area shows something different than what he thought. What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? Typically, as tower, I don't care about the details, I've got stuff to do. I'm not at liberty to discuss the matter further, but the safety of passengers and crew are paramount. Washington, DC 20591 Air traffic controllers are susceptible to power trips and moods and biases, just like everyone else. Probably is not the first time he had poor service from ATC. Researching this pilot's flight with FlightAware and Flightradar24 a much clearer picture emerges. Wnt to the FBO called the ATC sup from the day before had him and the controller involved from the previous flight, made student apologize for his behavior requested they critique student radio skill (he always had a cigar stub in his mouth, refused to remove it). This letter acknowledges receipt of your FOIA request dated May 27, 2020, regarding any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions, or FSDO records, regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance. When an aircraft is approaching your airspace and the destination is on the opposite side, it's obvious that they're going to need to descend at some point. incorporated its pilot deviation notification procedures into the Facility Operation and Administration publication in 1986. https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-negligent-pilot/. https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/faa-records-for-n731nr-97015/, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Keep up the anti-mask bs. I wish there was a portal where we could interject and tell the FAA to shove one up this guy's six. The Original Donna: Class Bravo & Charlie airspace requires certain verbal permission to fly in/out/ and through it, but you have basic lack of understanding when it comes to the airspace system I fear. Review: EgyptAir Lounge Cairo Airport (CAI). I assume the ATC reports him to the FAA and the FAA investigates? You have to request a Bravo clearance. I know this Controller and she is good at her job. Making excuses for people gets others killed. However he failed to descend below the inner ring, that ring starts at 4500 ft MSL and goes up to 10000 ft MSL. There are legal charges. In the next couple of weeks this is what he can expect: 1 Phone call with FAA to get pilots side of the story. Part of the perfected status is a complete name, and address from each requestor. When the controller said he was not cleared to enter the class B he probably thought he wasn't in the class B and after his 1st conversation is when he probably noticed he was off altitude because he made a quick decent to 4000 ft. His next run in is when he cut the corner of the center ring which is from the ground to 10000 ft MSL. LAS: "N1NR, possible pilot deviation, advise to contact Las Vegas approach. At this point another pilot chimes in and says youre an [emailprotected]@hole, and the pilot responds youre being that, this is not appropriate language. The video then goes back to the previous communication, which makes it clear that the pilot had never received clearance. Almost everybody agrees the jerk was wrong and dangerously so. I live in Las Vegas. It will get figured out. Or, the guy may be a massive jerk. E Watch how 731NR Decides to fly right into class bravo and not even care about it. I was the 16yo kid working the desk when his #2 instructor sent a private student off on his long cross country and controlled airspace solo flight he went to lunch. Shesa credit to the profession. Pilot deviation is when the actions of the pilot result in the violation of a Federal Aviation Regulation or a North American Aerospace Defense Command Air Defense Identification Zone tolerance. I'm flying." In aviation terms regarding "pilot deviation", the controller is telling the pilot that he is being reported, and there will be an investigation by the FAA. Either that, or "Karen" is the "wife" this aircraft is registered to in "Wife Approved LLC". It's hard to begin to defend such irrational and reckless behavior. - refusing to take down a number because "busy flying" See more about our ethics policies here. The pilot was asked to leave, but decides to stay. Sometimes its not possible to accommodate requests, either because of airport or supervisory/FAA edicts or because of systemic procedures or because of current workload.